This is not going to be a blogpost about “Why do people still use Reddit instead of everyone moving to Lemmy?”. I noticed that even with Mastodon users, who already understand and like the advantages of decentralized platforms, the usage of Lemmy is extremely small, and more people use Reddit. Most of them haven’t even heard of Lemmy. To be fair, the Reddit usage also seems to be fairly low.
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217 comments on this in 24 hours says to me that there must at least a few people using lemmy
Where do all those meme posts about “Lemmy is bad name / bad branding” come from? I’ve seen it recurrently enough every time someone launches a FOSS thing that I would normally suspect it’s part of a LLM farm or a scam attempt from some sort of naming / patents agency, but I’ve seen these reactions from long enough (2015-ish).
It’s named after a famous musician that was active for like 30+ years. Half the results when you search “Lemmy” are him, not the platform. Oh, and he had an unfortunate collection of Nazi memorabilia - he claimed it wasn’t because he liked the nazis just that he liked the look of their shit…
FOSS often ends up with bad names unfortunately. People never know what is going to become big when they start a project and they might get a giggle out of the name when it’s a small project. By the time the project becomes big enough that the name might actually start being a problem, it is also known by that name and changing it could significantly impact how many people keep using it. Unfortunately, a name change is often a touchy subject for any project.
I’m a 31 yr old dude that just found out about this along with what the fediverse is. When I found out, I was researching this stuff so it took me some time to understand it all and I still don’t think I fully understand it all
Part of the problem is there’s a lot less to it than it feels like there is. The analogies we use to teach to non-tech people don’t quite match up.
It’s simply a structured way to log in and send messages back and forth.
You can use it to stitch together forums, link shares, social media, video sharing, or image sharing sites.
But we really don’t bind things together all that tightly. At best you can follow someone on pixelfed or mastodon. Since there’s truly no minimum wiring, a lot of services don’t even really fully communicate with each other. So we end up mostly with mastodon <-> mastodon links and lemmy->piefed<-lemmy links.
activitypub is a protocol. like email.
instances are just what provider you want to use, gmail, hotmail, outlook, etc.
and the ‘platform’ lemmy, piefed, mastroton, pixelfed, is just the aesthetics
Lemmy as a name is very poor branding. It’s almost as bad as Mastodon.
I think it’s pretty good. Two syllables, easy to say, no similar sounding competing platforms. What do you think’s wrong with it?
Naming something after a famous person means you’re starting off on the back foot in terms of SEO and brand clarity.
Digg worked well because it came out of an era where adding a second G was enough to sound techy, but it also played into the dig/bury aspect of voting. Reddit works because the name is “read it” while also being a unique string you couldn’t mistake for anything else. Both have a lot going for them that Lemmy just doesn’t.
It’s this plus onboarding. Reddit is easy to remember. It tells you exactly what you are getting. Lemmy sounds like a new lemmings games. It gives vintage when it should do the opposite.
It’s a bad name and will never become popular because it’s stupid to say outloud and on top of it onboarding is unnecessarily complicated.
Perfect. I’m in the right place.
Disagree. This is a case of the brand actually not meaning much. “Reddit” isn’t great either, but people think it does because it’s well known.
I’m reminded of the person who said Mario was a character designed from the ground up to be marketable, when it was literally created to make a graphic of a person readable in a 16x16 sprite with three colors.
I’m offended now 😱
I think you guys have a great chance to capture Reddit’s exodus. I used it for about 16 years and me and all of my friends have realized how awful it’s become. People are looking for a new platform. I’m going to try and help by opening PRs against the repos.
Reddit has been exodusing for multiple years now. At some point, people are going to have to stop caring about the gorilla down the road and just be good, and I think Lemmy is good. Posts that make it to the front page often have over 1K reputation! It’s far from Reddit big, but it’s still big!
It’s because everything that becomes popular starts with people in the 14-20 year range.
Myspace, Facebook, Digg, Reddit, Instagram, Vine, Snapchat, Tiktok…
The Fediverse will eventually grow once something triggers a snowball effect due the nature of connectivity and federation. Until then, the way to make it grow is to have young people make it popular.
Edit: There also needs to be more “fun” here. I think the Fediverse is a more “serious” place which isn’t what those other social media sites offered. “Serious 24/7” isn’t that enticing for young people.
The other day I was imagining a game or game service that has you make a Fediverse account of some kind. You get people to signup with a username that automatically creates a “@fedi.games” account. That account can have access to Mastodon, Lemmy, Pixelfed etc.
what, you don’t think it’s fun endlessly memeing about doomerism and murder?
There’s not enough politics IMO. No fun at all.
Hey, I’m here! wtf just going to ignore me like that??
Ssh, this is a library.
Boiling it down to 3 things:
- Content Scale & Variety - Lemmy has a lot of content but it’s very tech/political heavy. It doesn’t have much to offer outside of that domain. Meanwhile, there’s a whole shitposting subreddit dedicated to an NFL conference – I don’t even closely follow professional American football, but it’s glorious.
- User Experience Friction - You can’t just sign up, you need to pick a server. You’ve already lost a significant amount of people in that step.
- User Base - There’s nice folks on here, but some really sour the experience for the rest of us by being straight up hostile if we don’t agree on every little detail.
Number 1 is the reason I rarely visit Lemmy. The choice and wording of political posts and reactions to them create a very negative atmosphere and sometimes it is combined with rather unrational doomerism. Threads just feel angry and hostile too often for me to have fun on here. This is even after blocking instances, communities, keywords and some personal ublock rules.
This is even after blocking instances, communities, keywords and some personal ublock rules.
That’s so much extra work
Step 2 is dead right. Before you can proceed, we’re going to need you to make an apparently important and irreversible decision that you didn’t even want to make, based on incomplete information.
I feel like this is an issue of (either accidentally or incidentally) putting focus on something that doesn’t really need it. Picking instances should not matter; not in the sense of “it’s federated blah blah” but more in the sense of “it’s 2026, there’s password managers, noone uses their real identities for everything; having multiple accounts wherever it’s convenient should be normal”.
YOU HAVE MADE A BLOOD PACT WITH WORLD.
ML HATES YOU NOW
i feel like it’s usually the opposite. some people just really insist on getting upset about anyone on .ml
and which instance you start out on… is going to heavily influence your experience/content and get you branded/blocked by a lot of the userbase
User Experience Friction - You can’t just sign up, you need to pick a server. You’ve already lost a significant amount of people in that step.
I think this can be improved if there was a better way to explain the identity of each instance and why you might want to join other than just “generic Lemmy server for everyone to use”
Also if the random server a new user randomly joins is one of the tankie trifecta they’re not gonna have a good time.
I suggest a map that shows which instances are federated/defederated from eachother and lets you find which one has the closest identity to what you like. And possibly a disclaimer before joining one of the trifecta instances.
Or just say fuck it and join the one literally called “shit just works” like me 😂
Ideally, I think instances ought to be something the casual user can be unaware of. Like the default experience should be instance-independent and the choice of instance should be some trivial thing that you can change on a whim carrying your entire user identity and chat history with you. I don’t really get any functional sense of community from my instance anyway
I thought ML was machine learning🥴
Big same lol
Also if the random server a new user randomly joins is one of the tankie trifecta they’re not gonna have a good time.
It’s worse than that. Lemmy just as reddit is mostly American. American election results were kinda… interesting. And Lemmy is very-very-very polarised. So there’s likely 33% chance that new American user will get to “politically their” instance, 33% chance they’ll get to the instance on the other side of the spectrum, and 33% chance it doesn’t matter what instance they’ll end up at, they’ll be terrified by both sides. So at best it’s 33% chance for user to find their hivemind, realistically it’s probably much less because even people technically from “your side” might find Lemmy to be way too radical. And that’s just Americans, imagine how the rest 96% of the world react to Lemmy.
some people might get confused for the instance they joined, like world, or ML, instead of another one, they go back to reddit.
To expand on 3, there are no (that I’m aware of) official community channels for businesses in the Fediverse compared to Reddit. The default avenues to interact with them are usually Discord, Reddit, and even Twitter.
In my opinion the following:
- Minority of very vocal users who get angry if you don’t share every point of their world view. Honestly you can just block most of them.
- Limited active subgroups - There are only a handful of active subs the rest are just dead. Which leads to…
- Limited content, posts stay in my feed for a week at a time before being replaced. I often block posts I like just because I’m sick of seeing it in my feed.
- Shitty moderation - mods here are way worse than Reddit.
I’ll be honest I miss old Reddit, Lemmy feels like an apocalyptic wasteland but it’s still better than most alternative. It’s kind of nice I don’t sit and consume content as much as I used to.
Minority of very vocal users who get angry if you don’t share every point of their world view. Honestly you can just block most of them.
THIS. I’m a progressive, egalitarian, socialist. I believe everyone deserves civil rights, but socially I don’t give a fuck about furries or whatever fucking kink you have. Do not equate the fight that gays/trans people have fought for their rights to your weird fetishes anime drawings. This opinion gets me in trouble here.
multiple instances, instances getting shutting down causes people to scatter, limiting lemmys pontential engagement.
A lot of people do use Lemmy. I dont get why so many people think something has to have literally everyone on earth using it or its dead. You see the same thing in games, too. Id rather there not be a singular monolirh even with lemmys fediverse design. The internet was better when it wasnt this way.
Exactly. Be grateful that all of reddit is not here.
Niche and local communities are non-existent here. It’s either politics, furry memes, or anime posts. It would be nice for the other communities to have engagement.
hey don’t forget all the mental health communities here…
And we have cats communities to deal with that one!
Let’s state plainly: the title is false. I use lemmy; you’re using lemmy; the other commentators are using lemmy.
There’s a concept I’ve been mulling over for a while–and economists probably have a term for it of which I’m ignorant of–that is that free software fails in capitalist market economies. I expect that statement to create a knee-jerk reaction. The truth is free-software is everywhere and as computers become ever more embedded into our economies free-software’s presence will only grow exponentially. It’s often the foundation for computerised economies.
Free-software enthusiasts understand that its become endemic to the economy. However businesses and consumers still ignore it even when it might be prudent to select or fund free-software. To ignore it seems contradictory to a lot of ideals. A capitalist business should use free-software as the monetary cost is zero: it’s a free product. Revolutionary organisations should adopt free-software is it aligns with their ideologies. Yet we know they don’t. These actors are acting irrationally.
Free-software lacks something that is a prerequisite to participate in an economy: capital. It has no money to propagandise itself. To phrase it another way: it has no money to buy ads. Without ads it doesn’t exist to entities who do have capital.
In Australia Reddit brought ad-space inside shopping-centers. Commercial software has revenues from which a portion can be spent on advertising and its through this advertising that growth can occur. The reason why lemmy has a small user-base is because it has no revenue streams. It’s an economic sink.
If we were to imagine that the user-pool was to dramatically increase what would actually occur? I imagine many instances would be overwhelmed with traffic, knocking them offline. For those that remain a lot of traffic would be perceived as spam. There is no revenue stream that’s attached to that user-base. If there was you would–absolutely!–see lemmy’s user-base increase as there would be a profit incentive: more users would equate to more profit. The current reality is that more users equates to more debts.
The market for ‘internet-forums’ has already consolidated into the big-players we know of. Maybe someone could take lemmy’s code and usurp the established vendors. That behaviour is already underway now; it’s why we have a multitude of lemmy instances. Maybe the next titan of ‘internet-communities’ will be running a lemmy stack. Not all operators are hosting lemmy with ideology/charity being at the fore. Some site operators are asking themselves, “how can I monetise this?”
From my perspective the issue isn’t why people don’t use lemmy, it’s why is hosting so expensive? The prerequisites to self-hosting (whether it be for personal use or for an established group or organisation) are costly. One has to pay rent on a DNS, static-IP, hardware and data connections. These prerequisites are commercial in nature and are priced as if every buyer has a revenue stream from which these rents are payed from.
If an individual/group wants independence and decides to self-host they’re taking on these rents that have been priced at commercial rates. Those are the monetary hurdles. There’s an intellectual hurdle too: a group needs to have members that know how to administer and maintain servers. The prerequisites are rather burdensome. It should then not come as a surprise that a group of young people who play video-games with each other elect to have their community on discord, or whatever commercial-entity takes on the economic and intellectual burdens. These commercial entities hide the complex nature of computer systems and the economic relationships that exist. In exchange they’re chasing speculative profits. They have revenue coming in from which they can apportion to advertising and paid programmers. They have the incentives to grow.
Lemmy is reactionary software. It pines for the day’s of webmaster superiority… Where a webmaster ruled a personal fiefdom and brought and sold other fiefdoms. Users should be able to host and maintain servers for themselves and their communities. Economic rents and knowledge-specialisation are high hurdles to overcome. If they are overcome they’ll find a wasteland where users have already been captured by existing market players—not only that! They’ll exist side-by-side commercial vendors that pay to have their software blasted from every ad outlet they can afford. The enthusiast or ideologue has sparse capital to attract new users away from their existing ‘digital-home’ whilst the current players have enormous war-chests and if non-economic forces somehow push new-users towards them (e.g. something ‘viral’) they have insufficient economic resources to accommodate them.
I would advocate for technology like GNUnet, i2p and hyphanet (GNUnet being my personal favorite). Software such as those abolish the major economic-rents that would otherwise be required for the ‘clearnet’. (DNS rents are unjustifiable and I would like to direct readers to the OpenNIC project.) However the intellectual burden is increased.
I would like to take a jab at the idea that Reddit (or whatever third-party is used) takes ownership of a community and their user-generated content. They certainly do, but the community leaders voluntarily gave it up. They also neglected their responsibilities. There’s no reason why users couldn’t have a local-mirror of their community even if it is hosted on a third-party platform. That would negate the reality of a third-party purge and therefore the ‘destruction’ of their community. These communities are irresponsible with irresponsible users. How does one make an irresponsible user responsible? I don’t think it can be done.
The autism is this comment is thicker than Earth’s mantle. Which is a layer of silicate rock between the crust and the outer core. It has a mass of 4.01×1024 kg (8.84×1024 lb) and makes up 86% of the mass of Earth. It has a thickness of 2,900 kilometers (1,800 mi) making up about 46% of Earth’s radius and 84% of Earth’s volume. It is predominantly solid but, on geologic time scales, it behaves as a viscous fluid, sometimes described as having the consistency of caramel. Partial melting of the mantle at mid-ocean ridges produces oceanic crust, and partial melting of the mantle at subduction zones produces continental crust.
The easier way to say what you said is that there’s no marketing and no money.
I’m just going to hop in here to remind folks to donate to your instance if you can afford to do so!
I use Lemmy and Mastodon, so I’m not really a great person to ask.
But I think all federated platforms have branding issues. “You should use Lemmy.” What does this mean exactly? What site do you join? What app do you download on the phone?
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must be a suprise, but people dont like kgb propaganda and linux nerds
I like linux nerds.
If I had to guess: the culture here seems unusual, and unwelcoming — sometimes even hostile — to diverse opinions (i.e. people who aren’t similarly unusual).
I haven’t met many people IRL who would fit in here. For some visitors, that’s okay (I don’t fit in here, myself), but I think most people would just move along and forget that Lemmy exists.
Being federated, Lemmy is technically capable of being more diverse. It’s a bit ironic that it still ended up being like this.
Also, some images don’t load. I just ignore those, but still people might be put off by broken UX
I blame some of the toxicity in the fact that a big chunk of lemmy users came here because they were banned from Reddit precisely for being hostile.
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About the images thing: half the posts on reddit are just [content removed by moderator] when you click into them
That’s actually the best defense of reposting I’ve heard
who am I? am I nobody? …yeah I guess I kinda am
