- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
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- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
Ricky Mondello (@[email protected])
hachyderm.ioIf you actually read the “Passkeys are a trap. Do not use them.” post going around, you’ll find a transparent attempt to clumsily string together a conspiracy.
The post is predicated on the idea that a feature of WebAuthn called “attestation”, which is only used in high-assurance and usually corporate scenarios, and usually with physical hardware security keys, will be leveraged to hurt people, somehow.
The post posits that a website like X will bait and switch users: first, you get a passkey. Then, later, scary “attested” passkeys! This simply isn’t possible to do because attestation isn’t supported on the web for mass market, consumer authentication.
Attestation for passkeys (software-based, syncable credentials) is antithetical to their mass market goals, and would freeze out independent, non-corporate-backed credential managers. It’s an explicit non-goal of the designers of passkeys, who work together in a forum anyone can join.
And trust me, websites and apps like banks repeatedly asked for attestation at the beginning of the industry’s passkey journey. The platforms, browsers, and credential management apps have held firm that the goal of passkeys is reducing phishing and **not** some kind of trusted computing scheme. (And I will note: over my dead body!)
Besides the theory of the case being fundamentally wrong, there are several things that make the post disqualifying in terms of arguing something useful or important in the realm of security, privacy, and user authentication:
1. Intentionally presenting things that are complicated as inherently suspicious. (Delivering security by design can be complicated, yes!)
2. Describing TOTP as a “great solution” for adding security to a password-based account. When the most common threat model on the web is phishing (a word the post never mentions!), TOTP hardly buys you _anything_. TOTP is phishable.
3. Seeming to be unbothered by how many logical leaps are being taken without actually understanding the topic being discussed.
There are bad things happening in tech and untrustworthy people and companies do exist, but they’re largely in the AI space, not the “let’s stop people we love from getting compromised through phishing” space.
A rebuttal to an anti-passkey, pro-TOTP post that has made the rounds on Lemmy as well.


If (after decades of awareness) you manage to get phished while using TOTP, you shouldn’t be trusted with a phone or any digital information at all
Granted. But there are plenty of users who probably shouldn’t be trusted with any digital accounts, but they still have to use them for daily life. If we can make it harder for them to mess up we should.
The problem is that if they’re getting phished with TOTPs then they’ll walk through a scammer over the phone to let them access their accounts other ways.
You can put all the security in place all you want but 99% of breaches aren’t coming from red team actors “hacking” into a system. It’s way easier (and even moreso now with LLMs able to do robo calls with human sounding voices) and get Brian from accounting to give up his shit…or even the CEO to give up his.
I’ve seen it all, they willfully will give over their access because they’re dumb as fuck.
Can we Not Act like only idiots can get phished? Nobody is Safe, especially when the phishing attempt is incredibly convincing
Most of the people who get phished, are not educated enough to avoid it. They don’t want to be, because computers are just supposed to work and not be something they need to learn.
If you’re educated and ask questions vs just assuming everything is legit and giving away everything they ask for then you realize quickly that phishing is not as convincing as you’re making it out to be.
Phished doesn’t mean just a plain old phone call or email these days. It can still happen, and does. But there are now reverse proxy systems that clone legit web pages to steal TOTP by appearing legit, and they’re highly successful.
I didn’t know of this, I still prefer the control TOTP gives you but yeah, that makes an argument for the passkeys I guess.
I know someone who works at a fairly large public university where TOTP is required. People (mostly students) are still constantly getting phished, despite TOTP. I guess young people don’t have the decades of awareness that some of us have.
TOTP tokens are often distributed as QR codes, where you can store in more than one place, store/copy/transfer in plaintext between people or places. Compromise of that token gives permanent access to all TOTP codes generated.
I’m not a fan of how most TOTP apps and implementations actually work right now.